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Read Comments From Readers of the Website "Kerry A. Shirts's 'Mormonism Researched' Page"
First a brief comment. I in no wise am intending to offend
people with this. I have edited the responses to delete personal
items or comments as well as some questions. I am merely trying
to get their comments on the website itself. I deleted at least
twice this many over the last few months, and then decided woops!
Other sites are doing this, so I want to also. Enjoy, and let me
know, I may even add your illustrious name to this thing....the
response has been simply overwhelming, and quite humbling when I
realize that folks are serious. I know that sounds funny, but it
is wonderful to know deep down, that perhaps, I have actually
been able to help someone who needs information. Most have been
complimentary. Some negative, many quite constructive in their
criticism for which I am grateful.....that's what makes it so
fun....Thanks!
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We appreciate what you do.
Brent Hall - (FARMS Manager of Communication)
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Love your web page. Was surprised at all the articles on the Book
of Abraham. More there than what I was expecting.
French
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Kerry, I just revisited your web page. If you'll slow down and if
I live long enough, maybe I'll get a chance to read all of that
great material you've been posting. I hope you get lots of
visitors to your site. I'm now recommending it to all the people
who have questions about the Book of Abraham, but I see that you
have much more than that out there. How do you find the time to
do all of this? I thought you were still employed and busy in
other pursuits. Anyway, keep up that great work. (I see that Jeff
Lindsay, who had a head-start on you in the area of web pages,
has very good comments about your site.)
What your evidence does is show that Joseph Smith's explanations
are not as implausible as the critics have been saying.
Ironically, though, when we demonstrate this to the critics, they
pull this kind of thing on us, saying, in effect, "But you
didn't really prove it." Most of these critics are Bible
believers, but fail to acknowledge that external evidence for the
Bible was elicited in the same way you have been eliciting
evidence for the Book of Abraham.
Kerry, your prodigious output is shaming the rest of us. You post
so many things on your web site that one is hard-pressed to read
it all. You don't need to put in more hours to outperform anyone.
John A. Tvedtnes Sr. Project Manager
Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies
Brigham Young University
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I just can't stand it anymore!!! You are an awesome defender of
your faith!
Matt Steen
(Matt is a non-Member with a son on a mission)
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Kerry:
First I have to say, I have visited your site many times and very
much appreciate your making the resources available in this manner
I find if most interesting and very helpful. Thank You
I read the article "Mnemonic Device of Egyptian Alphabet & Grammar
and Joseph Smith translation of the Book of Abraham - John Tvedtnes
& Richley Crapo's excellent study of the Joseph Smith Papyri" and
found it very interesting. It occurred to me that members of the
church who have memorized the Articles of Faith could relate to the use of key words to call to mind
those things they have memorized using a list similar to the following:
1. God
2. Sin
3. First
4. Calling
5. Church
6. Gifts
7. Scripture
8. Revelation
9. Zion
10. Free
11. Law
12. Good
Thank you again for your service.
Larry Lyman
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Dear Kerry,
You are a treat. Thank you for repling to my inquiry... where in the world
did you find time to do so??? I suspect that before you get to go to the
FARMS B.O.A. next year TIME will have become a commodity of Great Price.
You certainly will be in demand with these gifts you have been given ...
Do you do the wood projects AND write the articles in that appear in the
LDS web pages? WOW! ...and I mean WOW!! Enough for now... bless your heart.
If you are able to write you will find me attentive... but you have to
invest prime time to family and life first... that's the rule... e-mail is #175 in the list of importance...
You are amazing, Live Forever
Sincerely,
Hercel V. Shultz Jr.
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Howdy Kerry,
Thank you for your warm Christian reply. Happy to hear that you have
a sense of humor which you need when you enter most of these End-Time Web-Sites.
Richard
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Saw your website. Very good work. When do find time to work and be with
family? Thanks.
Tony Faber
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Dear Mr. Shirts;
My Name is Donna Morrison, I live in Baytown Texas. I currently
attend University of Houston Clear-Lake, in the Masters program for
history.
The required research and methods class requires that we do a
mini thesis (20-25 pages) on an controversial historian. Mine as you
might have guessed is Fawn Brodie. I read your
"Big, Bad, Boogie-Woman Brodie." If you don't mind would you answer a
few questions (you seem like a real person).
1. Why do you think so many people chose to believe the things that
Brodie has written.
2. Was she ex-communicated because she wrote the book, married a
non-mormon, or a mixture of both?
3. She states that it was her husband's idea, do you think that his
negative influence was the reason for the book.
Thank you in advance for your assistance. If you think there is more
(there is always more) that I can learn please feel free to tell me. I
really appreciate your assistance with this matter.
Sincerely,
Donna Morrison
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Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Your site has enough info
to keep me busy for quite some time.
Wade
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I love your site but couldn't find your credentials. Is their a section of
your site where they are mentioned or are they scattered throughout your
Atricles and reviews? I would love to read about your credentials and any
other information on how you have learned so much about the church, early
Christainity and Egyptology.
Thanks
Jeff Gleason
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First of all, thank you for the wealth of information you have provided on Mormonism... I enjoy reading each article you write, as well as your postings on alt.religion.mormon... they truly are a work of art!!
I am 18 years old, about to go on a mission, etc. etc... However, I recently have become engaged in seeking out the truth wherever I may find it, and I have discovered some things that appear to be, well, settling.
From my standpoint, it appears that atheists have logical reasons against Christianity (at least, a couple) For instance, that Paul corrupted the original teaches of Jesus, and that he incorporated pagan ideas that he used to make Jesus sound more "God-like" (I am sure you are familiar with these arguments)
I know the BoM smashes apart these claims, and I am sure that the atheist's arguments are unfounded in some way, and I know that this is not how it happened... However, I am unable to find any critiques whatsoever against these arguments, and I refuse to believe that I must accept this on faith alone, with there being no logical or other answers to these claims.
I know you are busy, and that you must spend time doing other things then answer some youth's inane questions :) A short answer is ok, but I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction!!
Thank you soooo much,
Kevin Larson
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No man reads Fawn with a straight face. Amen. Loved this one. I like
your sense of humor. Might I ask what you do for a living, and how you
find time for all this writing? Are you retired?
Wayne
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Hi Kerry,
I came across your website and was impressed by the amount of information
that you've included. I am not a Mormon, but am interested in obtaining
well-researched apologetic information regarding the LDS faith, but I'd like
to obtain something(s) in book form. Do you have some good, favorite
references that you can recommend to me and where I might get a copy of them?
Thanks in advance,
Dave K. Adams
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Recently I went to your section notes on the Bible. Though I did not have
time to read this all I read the footnotes to see who you were citing.
(1) It is true that some evangelicals do not understand the process of
transmission of an ancient text and how errors creep into a document, some
do.
(2) I have been reading the Book of Mormon, the other standard references
and Gospel Principles, of the Church. I am not a LDS, I am an evangelical
Christian. I have been meeting with LDS missionaries, sadly they donot even
understand textual maters as in your article.
(3) The restoration of the Biblical text takes place though the study of
Textual criticism.
(4) I do not as yet believe Joseph Smith is a prophet, and therefore cannot
agree with the Mormon Church; though I am still checking the Book of Mormons
truthfulness.
(5) I have never heard of some of these guys that you have cited, though I
will check them out.
(6) What I am after though, is a copy of the places were the Bible is not
translated correctly, as the LDS article 8 states. Sadly, I have tried in
vain to get this info from the Regilious Ed Depatment at BYU. I contacted
FARMS to day concerning this and the historicity of the Book of Mormon. I
want to know where the Bible has been mistranslated. So that I can check
the text for myself. What Greek text do you guys use for the NT? What text
or manuscripts do you use for the Old Testament?
P Tuften
BD; MA; Th.L; Dip Min; Dip PTS (Div)
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Mr. Shirts,
Hello. My name is Carl and I am a non-denominational Protestant. I have read
some of your work (at your site and "Letters To An Anti-Mormon"). You put
out very good work. Recently I read (most of) a recent article of yours
titled "Godly Archaeology".
I sent an email to a contact of mine, Robert Turkel (under the pseudonym
J.P. Holding) of Tekton Ministries and asked him if he would respond to your
article (he is also a Protestant and is very inteligent and since that paper
disagree's with my beliefs and is beyond my writing and research ability I
asked him), well here is his response:
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Hooo boy...
Mr. Shirts is opening a real can of worms for himself...some of those cites
he uses prove too much; and his attempt to just use what he likes is going
to backfire on him...his comments at the end notwithstanding.
>>>I think that essay by Shirts deserves a full response.
It does deserve a response (and actually, the points he makes from the Bible
itself, I have a response to already in that chapter I've sent you samples
from), but until he inserts the footnotes I can't do a decent job...I'll
need to check his sourcework (which in past times, I have noted, is quite
deficient; I have caught him misusing sources before). Something tells me
though that it will be quite a long time before the sources are inserted!
-------
So I was wondering if you could supply me with the sources that you used to
write your essay so I could give them to Turkel.
Thank you for your time and for a great site (The BOA research especially).
May God bless you and yours,
Carl M.
--------
I was wondering if you have any of your works published?
If you could 'turn your brain down' I would like to discuss some essays on
your site in the "Bible Theology" section. Some I have been eying at are
"Predestination & Foreordination & Premortal Existence in the New Testament"
and the article on Hebrews 1:23. Also the 'Jesus is Jehovah' issue, Acts
7:55-58, and 'praying to Jesus' are topics I've always desired to have an
intellectual discussion over but haven't been able to do so. First though,
I'm interested in your interpretation of John 10:34 and Psalm 82.
I've never understood why Mormons would use these passages in that Jesus
told us "ye are gods" which is present tense and not even Mormons believe
they are currently gods (present tense). I'm comfortable with terms like
"little gods" that we will become after death, and Jesus was giving those
Jews the title "gods", but I perceive it is overreading those passages to
make them concur with Mormon theology (we will obtain our own
kingdom/eternal procreation). Only recently have I started to talk with
Mormon scholars (Schindler as well), so I'd greatly appreciate hearing some
intelligent insight and interpretation of these passages.
Thank you for your time.
May God bless you and yours,
Carl M.
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Here in Washington State, Freemasons have formed a partnership with Habitat for
Humanity; as Junior Warden, I have been directly involved in these efforts in my
own lodge. I was so glad to see the positive plug for Habitat in your review.
Thanks, Kerry!
Joe Swick
Mormon Mason Libertarian Heretic
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Hi Kerry - you do all of this on your own?? Wow! What is your background? I've written for newspapers and professional magazines. The poems and essays are from 40+ years of writing by myself; anything you would like to use of mine; that you find on the poetry pages you are welcome too (just please give proper recognition and do not use commercially). I write, have published and have never received any compensation for anything I've written. If I can help you in any way let me know; I'm totally disabled (4 heart attacks + 2 bypass surgeries (15years ago) have left me with little energy except to do Heavenly Fathers work and write.
I spend hours reading your material - chuck
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Kerry,
I have always enjoyed your web site, but where have you been? It's been
nearly a year since the last update. You've spoiled us and we just want more.
Thanks,
Matt
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Hi Kerry,
That's great news! I'm looking forward to seeing your book - your art is
simply amazing and I've cherished the one you gave me.
Ed Watson
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Thank you so much for printing a honest to goodness true mormon webpage.
With all the crap on the internet right now, it's hard to find one
(unless it's the official church home page) that isn't filled with lies!
Thank you again!
Whitney Holyoak
Stillwater, Oklahoma
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You are absolute yet the fact remains that Joe Smith was a man with a great mind (like you)
liked to have sex with a bunch of different women (like you would) and dabbled in magic ( like your writings)
People like you have followed people like joe smith because they need someone like joe smith in thier head to believe in - - and something to defend - - to feel superior - when you meet joe smith in hell come get me because with his lies he should be able to get us all out.
quick background of myself: return missionary and faithful member until a few years ago. when questions erupted in my heart as well as my mind.
well, I hope you have democratic understanding for my sharp points. Since you have decided to speak from the public tower surly you have prepared for the commenting and friendly public. lets begin out debate shall we?
I assume your response of comparing thousands of year old Jew world Patriachs of the Torah to this aspiring con artist of the 19th century. I would love to see the outline of comparison. It is fact that our beloved money digger of gold and treasure using a seer stone of sorts to accomplish this supernatural task for a few coins had a family history of these dubious deeds. Perhaps your history classes have become mired within the faithful beliefs of Joe Smith the man who saw and heard God and Jesus. Now I will give you two things that we cannot expect a perfect life of JS and we surly cannot condemn him for his documented sins - we cannot cast stones without self-subjective ananlysis...right. However what we can do is look at the facts: Joe smith took 18 years to develop the first vision and latter day prophets rewrote the event as we know it today - - - fact 2: Joe smith had to hid his sexual misdeeds from his wife and slept with a 14 year girl that he took as a wife 3: many of these so called wifes werer already married to other men in a civil court fact 3: There has been no proof that these marriages were ever neccesary fact 4: why would god give these women to JS behind emmas back
All of that aside - it is very obvious even to a child that this man is perverted and the deeds were not of God.......................deep down you must see that clearly.I believe you do no matter what you say.
The most obvious event to lead a man to a clear understanding of the chruch is when JS died and his son was reamed by the older and cunning Brigham Young to suck the ignorant and leaderless saints from under the SON of the man who saw god and jesus............You will see the trend in your TORAH that power goes to son - - even God the father and his first son JESUS attest to that. remember - - Brigham was a learned politician and JS had hopes to rule to the country like some absolute powerful king - -
How can you associate your loving feelings in your heart for god and jesus and allow this 19th century peasant and lying gentile to be named with our father - - shame on you - - Kerry - -it is time to come to terms with the book of mormon = = it is a fictional work and that make so much sense - even the bible is greatly fiction for symbols - - ¯-- - - can you tell me the first time you went through the temple you felt GOD or did you really feel confusion and scared - the truth kerry - -would you have went through these things without the company of common church members there to support you - - -
Ok - I have said my two cents - am I wrong about JS - perhaps marriage to a 14 year old girl and JS laying her down in her bed brushing aside her wooden toys and removing her clothes and touching her as he rapes her young body for his dirty diseased organ to be pleasured WAS INDEED the will of God - the mind of god the loving god you pray to?????? of course would you tell your 14 daughter that it is ok for the adult man to touch her because she is now a wife - IT WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you know it.......why do you support it.......why.it makes me cry sometimes........................tell me you are not saying the will of god was ever to make women into religious bondage and holy harems - - -speaking of the apostacy - the church that christ started did not EVER break completly away..........they was not anything to restore - - the whole restoration process is IMAGINATION and smart men to speak of to people that do not know history and refuse to believe the truth - - HOW could christ's foundation EVER break apart???????????????????/he had already died on the cross for pete's sake ¯- the deed was already done - - the restoration was complete with his resurrection - the priest hood was never broken - - why would god and jesus say it was all wrong what they had created and died FOR............did jesus die in vain KERRY because now it would take a man from vermont to set things straight for JESUS........jesus was half god and you're telling me a common low life man could do what jesus could not do JS died in jail because of illegal wifes- - and the fact the mason was pissed off at him for exposing thier ordiances in JS chruch - - - now kerry the masons and the mormon temple ordiances was the SAME for many years and there was no temple ordiance until JS became a mason______________________--KERRY hello you are a very smart person HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you cannot be that dense______________________________________________________________________________________________forgive me _______________________________________I know that God did not do what JS said he done - I prayed about and ask you to do the same.
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Kerry,
First of all I want to thank you and others who take the time to research issues brought up by critics of the church. Like you, I don't care so much about the conclusions, but am interested about what they say.
-----------------------------------
I have read a lot your articles on your website and have been impressed
with your research and understanding of LDS doctrine. I have a bit of a
curious question for you.
I recently have read a publication (it was printed as an ongoing series
in Vision magazine)which is in the process of being published as a book
entitled "Joseph Fought
Polygamy" by Richard and Pamela Price. They have a theory that Joseph
didn't practice polygamy but it was started by Brigham and some others
that had been enfluence by the Cohranites. They even propose that
Williard Richards was involved in a the assassination of Joseph. They
claim that Joseph was in the process of clearing all of the polygamist
or the spiritual wifery out of the church and that is one of the things
that got him killed. My question is have you read the Price's writings
or in you research have come across anything that would substanciate
such ideas. I am an active mormon and I can understand and accept the
princible of
polygamy but what bothers me is the lying by Joseph and the church
leaders involved in polgamy and the character assasination of those who
found out about it and sought to reveal the practice of polygamy.
Essentually if we hold to the LDS version of church history we are
agreeing with men such as John C. Bennett and many of his claims in his
book "History of the Saints. And we have statement after statement of
Joseph Smith denying any involvement with polygamy. Why all the lies
and deciet? I hope you can see where I am coming from. I am not trying
to attack the church. I am just trying to make sense of the history.
Thank you for your time.
STEVE
------------------------------
Well, having been a Mormon for 20 Years and finally finding the truth that
the LDS church and the BOM is in fact nothing more than a lie designed by
Satan through Joseph Smith to Lead people away from the true gospel. I
searched the antimormon claims and the mormons claims against them. Looking
at the original texts when they were available and praying about what I
found. I am thankful that the Holy Ghost testified to me that The BoM is
nothing but some plagerized sections of the bible with the stories of the
Nephites and Lamanites thrown in to make it look like something new. My
Story can be found on WWW.oe-pages.com/RELIGION/Christian1/jackm/ and
http://hometown.aol.com/jmoore1248/myhomepage/profile.html Now you may
think I am just another whacko AntiMormon, but I know of what I have seen and
what the church has tried to do to hide its past.
~~~~And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall
receive. Matt. 21:22~~~~
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Hi.
I was linked to your site via the last hotkey on Lindsay's pages.
Is there any significance to the colours you have used to list your
related articles? Some are black, some red, some blue...
Missionaries have been visiting our home quite regularly and I have been
doing research. I have printed all the FAQs from Lindsay's site, and a
ream of paper and an ink cartridge later I have discovered yours...
Before I have enough paper to start my own library on Mormonism :-), I
thought I would inquire as to why you used three different colours in
your listing of articles.
Thanks,
Linda Fox
(the colors merely show which section is linked, and what is new - red means new basically - KAS)
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Hi Kerry
Thanks for the article about Christ's resurrection. Enjoyed the read. Keep 'em coming.
I like to share your articles with other members of the Ward.
Regards from merry old (wind and rain swept) England
Rod Keeble.
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Hi Kerry, thanks for the article-a masterpiece as usual. We're going to have
to write a book together on the subject it seems.
Bish Cook (BYU Professor)
(the article I sent him was on Christ's resurrection and some Early Christian ideas on such)
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Kerry,
Thanks for two great articles! I really enjoyed them both. Yours was
well-researched and well-argued as usual. Still it's good when a nonmember
who is a serious scholar points out that we have a lot of really impressive
and worthwhile things to say. And the anti's still keep trying to insist
that Joseph just made it all up as a joke!
Great to hear from you. Keep it up.
Russell McGregor (Australia LDS)
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Hi,
I really enjoyed your article on Dan Jones and the Maid of Iowa. It made
want to more about the circumstances which led to the Church acquiring a
steamboat, and more details of its operations.
Thanks very much,
Bob Harris
San Diego
--------------------------------------------
I really have enjoyed your web page and intense study of the Book of Abraham.
I am wondering if you ever noticed the complete description of Figure 5,6,7 of
facsimile no 2 in the Book of Revelations?
Consider these scriptures:
Rev 4:7 - 4 Beasts
Rev 4:2 - God sitting on his throne
Rev 5:6 - Lamb of God in the center (midst)
Rev 5:13 - Every creature
Rev 7:9 - People of the earth who are saved with palms in their hand
The person before the lamb has her hand outreached with a palm?
This person is clearly a women or bride
Rev 19:7-9 Marriage (D&C 109:74-76
Rev 4:10 - Giving tokens (crowns)
Russell Scadden
Atlanta, GA
---------------------------------------------
I must applaud you for the indepth list of topics on this site. they
give many answers to all the anti-mormon arguments (which appear to be
most old and refuted). As a stake missionary I have heard some arguments
and claims against the BofM that I'd never heard before (such as the
Shakespere one). Well I go to your website and BAM! there it is. Info to
help me understand what nonsense is out there. Thank you so much for the
wealth of info. It would be helpful to have links to the original
arguments that are made against the BofM or other things so I can
understand what thier claims originally were.
Thanks again
-Bryce Erickson
----------------------------------------
Kerry:
Hi, there. I'm a new member of the Church (as of May 16) who is just struggling along with usual
issues that some new members struggle with. I've enjoyed many of your postings on this newsgroup. (The good postings are often worth wading through the 95% of garbage that apears in a.r.m)
Regards,
Kelly Kendrick
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Hello, Mr. Shirts,
I am one of those evangelicals who happened across your web-page. One of the first things that caught my eye was your hot link "from a concerned evangelical Christian." I was terribly dissappointed when I clicked on it and found it led to Robert Price's "Beyond Born Again." Many of the issues relating to Price's work (though not all) have been answered at:
www.jude3.org/bookshelf/truth/tekton/Tekton_TOC.html
It contains a book, nay several volumes of hypertext in defense of Orthodox Christianity. And the authors welcome any attempt to prove them wrong. Take your shot. The guys at the Sec Web haven't been able to do it. BTW, one essay uses Ehrlman's book in DEFENSE of the Christian view of textual reliability. I've GOT to get my hands on that one to see who's telling the truth. Based on a cursory examination of your work, I don't think it's you! :-)
Just glancing over a few things, I noticed three rather glaring errors:
1. Robert Price is an EX- and ANTI-evangelical writer, not "a concerned evangelical Christian." What do you think the word "Beyond" means?
2. In your list of "what scholars had to say about the Bible", you included Steve Allen. Do you mean to tell me that he was pursuing his PhD in Biblical Studies while he was hosting the "Tonight Show?"
3. You stated that the BofA controversy, anti-Mormon writers say anything they please. ????? Tvedness and Crapo go speculating that since the Aztecs used Mnemonic devices, that we can just assume it is plausible that the Jews did, too! (BTW, I had little difficulty in constructing as convincing a connection with chpt. 3 of Dave Rohl's "Pharaoh's and Kings.", picked at random!).
I'll keep reading your essays, but if this is characteristic, then it's hypocritical for you to complain about "errors, misrepresentations, and distortions". And while I have a good sense of humor, and don't mind a little polemic mixed with mild ridicule, your sight contains the most childish slur-to-salient point ratio that I've seen on the Web, and that includes Christian, Atheist, Mormon, anti-Mormon, etc. And I find this to be very characteristic of Mormon apologetics, with the exception of Michael Griffith and Gilbert Scharrfs. I'm just getting into the beef of it and I have much more reading to do, but I tend to be very suspicious of those who have to resort to so much rhetoric. I hope that isn't the case.
Sincerely,
Brent Hardaway
(Kerry notes: It is utterly fascinating how folks understand what they read. While I enjoy seeing constructive criticism, I also have to explain something. I try very, VERY hard to research in a serious vein. I also enjoy having fun, and nothing is worse, in my opinion, than a dry, boring, pedantic exposition of some point of the Gospel or the scriptures. They have LIFE, and I believe life is far too short to be bored or do all the boring in writing without some fun. Those who know me best understand my sarcastic and sometimes ribaldy weird humor. I can live with that. I find it interesting that others, such as this fine fellow, find me to be rather, well, childish! Very interesting to be sure, and I suppose I must plead guilty of it in some ways to be sure. I have my serious side as well as my childish side, and cannot hide that, nor do I try. While it is probably best for purely academic reasons to stay stilted, I just cannot. In the process I suppose I lose some credibility. Oh well! There is simply no way on earth I can please em all anyway, so I don't take it too awfully serious if they do lambast me with constructive criticism. As Nibley so aptly has noted, the Gospel is true, once we find that out, we can let our hair down a little and enjoy ourselves. While I also try to take researching the Gospel seriously,....take myself seriously? Nah! I am mere human with so little knowledge in my head, that nothing is so egotistical as to think I can find out all there is, and have complete, total, and flawless research on each and every item I write on. The vast majority of readers of my site find it really interesting, highly informative, etc. I grant it, I do try to reply with hysterical comments because those who I am refuting or responding to are themselves writing in this vein, so I emulate them, sort of a tit-for-tat thingy. While no offense is meant in some of my writings, in others, well, yes, I am trying to get the author's attention whom I am criticizing and for very good reason! So it goes. I will take the comment of Joseph Smith into use here. If you hold me to certain standards, I will hold you to them. If you can forgive me on my weaknesses (for they are legion) then I also will be forgiving. NONE of us know too awfully much anyway, so this life is so short, and so information filled that literally 99.99999999% of what we SHOULD know, simply escapes us, so that ANY view is near totally incomplete, at best....so it goes.)
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Kerry,
I admire your research on Thumbs versus wings. It serves a useful
purpose. This sort of research has always seemed tedious to me
but your evidence and conclusions are exciting. I am anxious to
see what insights you have to add since your knowledge is quite
detailed.
I enjoyed your webpage immensely. I'll be back to visit.
Randall Larsen
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Thank you for Making scholarly Church resources Available
I just wanted to drop a note thanking you and others for your
efforts in placing scholarly research about the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints on the internet. I am a convert to
the Church of 27 years. ago. I am also totally blind, and am
using an Ms-dos based web browser, screen review program and
voice synthesizer to access the internet. I am pleased that I can
access a vast amount of information on the Church so easily.
I had read the Book of Mormon up to King Benjamin's sermon in the
Book of Mosiah when I was 17, and decided it was a hoax. But I
hadn't prayed about it. When I attended Institute I thought the
Institute instructor said that portions of the Book of Abraham
papyri had been found, that they verified that Joseph Smith's
translation of the book was correct. At that point, my mind began
to be opened as to the possibility that Joseph Smith was a
prophet. I was also fascinated by the doctrine of the Church. The
idea that we lived with God for eons as spirit children, that
intelligence is not created (which solves the problem of the
origin of evil), that our life here has a purpose, that there are
degrees of glory that we will attain unto according to our
faithfulness after the resurrection--all of these ideas strongly
appealed to me. I finally secured a copy of the Book of Mormon on
records, and read it, prayed about it, received a testimony of
the book, and the rest is history.
After I joined the Church, I was told that the papyri did not in
fact confirm Joseph Smith's translation of the Book of Abraham.
But it didn't shake my testimony. However, I was disappointed to
hear this.
Now, after all this time, I have found scholarly research in this
area that may verify Joseph Smith's translation of the book.
What a find!
I apologize for the length of this message, but I hope you
understand that I am elated to know that there really is evidence
(not irrefutable evidence, but evidence) of the historicity of
the Book of Mormon and of the Book of Abraham.
Best regards,
Richard McChesney
------------------------------------------------
Kerry,
I visited your site and am impressed.
Richley Crapo
--------------------------------------------------
Perhaps the best apolegetics site on the web. Even better that
FARMS.
Thanks for your work.
David Knight
--------------------------------------------
Kerry - I really appreciate the work you put into this. Keep up
the good work!
Marc & Kathleen Schindler
------------------------------------------------
Your web page is awesome! Keep up the good work!! You have
inspired me to better aquaint myself with Brodie's work (since it
will re-surface 'til the end of time). I can't wait to get the
time to really jump into the Book of Abraham...There is so much
COOL info on the Book of Mormon!!!
On a side note, have you seen Jeff Lindsay's web pages? They are
a load of fun and very resourceful!! I met Jeff at a Chemical
Engineering conference in Chicago. Definitely a cool dude!
Anyway, he speaks highly of your pages.
-- Walter Reade
--------------------------------------------------
Kerry,
I always "get a kick" out of your writings. You
struggle so hard to see what you want to see and ultimately you
do see what you want to see. Your article is so full of
superfluous facts that it appears you are trying to build a solid
case when in fact one does not exist. This use of facts in your
writing is very much like the work of Nibley. You appear to use
facts to obscure the truth. By focusing on one hieroglyph without
viewing the entire hypocephalus in context only shows my that you
have missed the forest by concentrating on a single tree.
I still hold to my belief that the Book of Abraham is at best a
revelation, inspired by these Egyptian writings.
PAX,
Owen West
-----------------------------------------------------
All that information that you have on your website is just TOO
AWESOME!!!
Greg Cooper
------------------------------------------------------
Kerry,
I really enjoyed your LDS page. I just found it, but I will be
spending considerable time there in the future.
Thanks,
Weindell
--------------------------------------------------
I really appreciate your wonderful efforts. I have read some of
your articles and think you are doing a wonderful service to the
great cause that we are involved in.
Thanks
Jerry Gurr
---------------------------------------------
Hello,
I don't suppose you know me, but I'm a fellow FAIR member. I've
been enjoying your website lately, especially the material on the
Book of Abraham.... I thank you especially for your time spent in
promoting LDS research.
Sincerely,
Mariner Folk
------------------------------------------------
Hi Kerry!
I am trying my hand at researching different LDS subjects and
other Christian subjects ... Thank You For All You Do In
Defending The Faith
Sincerely and Humbly Sent
Bro. Devin Willis
----------------------------------------------
I don't know if you would remember me or not, but I was on
Prodigy for around 3-6 months. My name is (snip) and my wife is
(snip), also known as L and MB. I am glad to see you still
delving faithfully into Mormon scholarly works.
L
--------------------------------------------
Kerry,
I was raised in an LDS family...I have certain areas of interest
as history, and paleontology, and other sources regarding the
church. It is a fascinating history. Other areas are a little
uncomfortable for me, so i am not looking to debate, so please
respect me.
I have kept an eye on your site for about a year now, it is one
of my favorites along with Stan Barker from Shilelds, and John
from Farms. I see there is more that I would like to research now
that is on your page. I have known Sandra Tanner for over a year.
Don't let that disturb you, because their is many things that she
says that is questionable to me.
Thanks for your time,
James
------------------------------------------
Kerry,
It's nice to hear from you! I'm enjoying using your Abrahamic
material in my Gospel Doctrine class, and fine it very insightful
and thorough. Presently I'm rewriting a 550 page book I did some
years ago with Raphael Patai's help. It will be an expansion of
the sections on "Mystical Communion with Yahweh" and
"The Wisdom Mystery" in my ANCIENT TEXTS AND MORMONISM.
I just downloaded your copy of the Evangelical Convention
address, and bless you for the next SIX years! But your wonderful
postings are using up all my paper (willingly, however)!
I certainly value having the opportunity to communicate with you
and share your indefatigable efforts to dig up important
information. It is of great value to all of us. I see a gradual
victory over evangelical cultism shaping up, using the combined
work of many humble students such as ouselves.
Best wishes,
Eugene Seaich
-------------------------------------------------
Much enjoyed your article on Dan Jones, especially the 'drunk
Joseph' account. You seem to be a prolific, yet faithful,
researcher of LDS miscellany. Keep up the good work.
J. B. Herrick
Professor of Biology
James Madison University
P.S. I did find one discrepancy in the dates in the article. One
part of the article says, "Unable, however, to refuse the
precepts of Mormonism, Jones become an adept and was baptized in
the icy waters of the Mississippi in 19 January 1843." Then
later, ""In March 1843, Elders Parley P. Pratt and Levi
Richards, having just landed in New Orleans with about two
hundred British converts.... Within a month Captain Jones was
baptized, and the Prophet began the purchase of half interest in
the Maid of Iowa, buying Levi Moffit's share of the boat for
$1,375."
--------------------------------------------
Kerry A. Shirts
I was bragging about your site in Gospel Doctrine class and one
of the members whose son-in-law writes occasionally for FARMS
looked it up and then called up the son-in-law and told him he
needed to get on the Internet and check it out. I have it
bookmarked to start my research. Thanks for your hard work.
Larry B.
-------------------------------------------------
Kerry,
I am the Ward Mission Leader in my ward and am anxious to digest
the plethora of incredible information on your website. Could you
direct me to information and pictures of "Stila #5" ?
This is the archeological discovery that parallels Lehi's
"Tree of Life" dream.
Thank you for your dedication and incredible efforts!
Brian Decker
------------------------------------------
Dear Kerry,
You know that I think very highly of your research. How any one
would call it amateurish is beyond me. (Thinking especially of
your excellent work on Abraham!).
(Do you ever sense any trace of academic competetiveness or
jealousy among those who are connected with official positions in
BYU, or the Church? Actually, we ought all to be trying to help
the Lord's work, whether we get fair credit or not).
Name Withheld
-------------------------------------------------
Dear Kerry,
I found your website about a week or so ago. I just want to tell
you that I'm very impressed with what you have and just to
encourage you to continue. It's individuals like you that are
fulfilling D&C 121. I've had my fair share of run ins with
our anti-Mormon friends. Especially Ed Decker and his crew. I'm
so greatful for the gospel and what it has done for my family and
me. I'm thrilled to know that there are individuals like you who
are on the Lord's side. I will be checking in on your website
very frequently and printing out papers. The gospel is true Kerry
and thanks again for your efforts. May the Lord continue to bless
you.
Sincerely,
Rory Richardson
-------------------------------------------------
Your site has been a featured link for a while on the Australian
LDS Website. I've finally got around to making up a graphic so
you can display it on your site and let the world know that the
saints down under like your site. If you like, you can link the
graphic to the Australian LDS Site so people know who gave you
the award.
Stephen O'Neil
--------------------------------------------------
Love the updates!
Hats off to you again (and many thanks)
Raymond "delayed doctorate" Hurst
--------------------------------------------------
Kerry,
I continue to enjoy your postings. You have a nice way of not
beating around the bush. I notice you don't have a lot of
patience with poorly researched, illogical material.
Bob Bennett
--------------------------------------
Mr. Shirts:
Though I did not spend much time on your internet site, I did
read your review of Bart Ehrman's book. You vastly overestimate
the significance of his observations. There really is little in
his book that will come as a surprise to Evangelicalism.
Evangelical New Testament scholars have been on the forefront of
textual criticism for a number of years and we are quite aware of
the kinds of corruptions Ehrman points out. In your review you
seem to think that Ehrman's work is revolutionary and poses a
challenge to the doctrine of inerrancy. I don't think the book
does anything of the sort. Please allow me to make two
constructive criticisms: First, it does not appear that you have
a solid grasp of the doctrine of inerrancy and make mistakes in
characterizing it. I suggest that you read some of the scholarly
literature devoted to the subject (a few references are given in
our review of HWTD). Second, I think that the significance you
give to Erhman and some of the implications you draw result from
an unfamiliarity with New Testament scholarship. While much of
Ehrman's book is a fine study, there are a number of places in
which his conclusions are highly debatable and are as driven by
prejudice as the corruptors' corruptions he describes. Some of
his decisions about what counts as a corruption and what is the
original text are more the product of a controversial (and in my
opinion, mistaken) reconstruction of the history of early
Christianity than they are of good textual criticism (which is
not to say that Ehrman is a bad text-critic). A few bad
philosophical presuppositions about the nature of truth and
history also poke their heads through.
You mentioned in your review that you wanted to read all of
Ehrman's books. In November Oxford UP published an anthology of
early Christian writings and an intro. to the NT of his (a
companion set designed for classroom use). The anthology is an
interesting mix and the intro takes a higher-critical approach
and is pretty basic. I think there are a number of better NT
intros on the market that you would better spend your time
reading (e.g. Carson, Moo and Morris; Brown; Guthrie; etc.).
Kind Regards,
Carl Mosser
-------------------------------------------------------
I look forward to reading your research!
Dale Williams
------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Shirts,
Your website is very interesting and informative and I have
thoroughly enjoyed reading many articles. However, one point I
would like to make is that there is an error in one of your
references. You state in your article on "Let There Be
Lights", regarding the origin and use of the Urim and
Thummin throughout the Old Testament, that Numbers 28:21 deals
with Joshua and his instruction that Eleazer the High Priest
would "ask counsel of him after the Urim". Not being a
Bible scholar, and not thinking that there was ever a use for
such a device in the scriptures, I was looking up all of the
references that were available to me (which clearly are not
many), and when I came to that, I thought someone was feeding me
a line as high as the sky and expecting me to believe it. The
reference clearly was not talking about anything like that. It
was only after searching more that I discovered the problem of
citing a wrong chapter number. This was probably due to a lack of
proper editing, but caused me to doubt those references that I
can not check for myself. I noticed that this fault lies in many
critics and many anti- anti critics point to this as a major
issue. It can happen, can't it? I know you meant not to decieve.
But please check your references and be careful when editing so
as not to cast doubt on your good works.
Warmest regards,
Sherry
(Kerry notes: Woops! She was right of course, I was a little
careless in my reference. Well heck, I type so much so often,
that a mistake like this is bound to happen, so I appreciate my
dear readers keeping me on my toes.....KAS)
---------------------------------------------
Hi Kerry:
Thanks for sending me a copy of your latest research; I read it
with great interest. While I love the Book of Abraham for the
doctrines and ideas contained in it, and really could not care
less about what its critics may have to say, your research was a
delight to read.
Best regards.
Hadley V. Baxendale
----------------------------------------------
Kerry,
I quite enjoy reading your papers on LDS topics. I only have two
questions. 1) How big is your library, and 2) How on earth do you
find time to do all of that research? Keep up the good work. I
see some of the bad guys have been going after you. I guess you
can take that as a sign of making an impact.
Bob Bennett
------------------------------------------
Hello! I presume you are "the" Kerry Shirts that was on
the "old" Prodigy back in the days of Jim Peterson,
Mike Garrett & Stephenie Orris? If so, we wrote back and
forth a few times. If not . . . ooops.
But I just got back on the 'net and stopped by your website. What
a thing of beauty it is! I just downloaded some of your articles
and will be reading them tonight. The titles are hilarious!
As I go through some of the articles, I'll undoubtedly be writing
some commentary back to you! I love your attitude toward the
anti-Mormon jokers. I deal with them every day here locally
(helping out the elders and investigators, mostly). I'm so amazed
with how effective much of this pro-LDS information is. Just in
the last year, three people have been rebaptized after falling
away due to Deckerism and Tannerism. What joyous occasions those
were!
Keep up the good work,
John Wise
-----------------------------------------
I really appreciate your hard work here. I have been indulging
myself on Xmas Eve by surfing for first time in a long time. I
have printed a number of your articles for more "in
depth" review. Although I feel you have somewhat the same
attitude towards orthodox Mormonism as a local broadcaster does
towards his basketball team, that does not detract from the
enjoyment I get from your enthuisastic "amateur"
approach. (snip some personal question stuff) Thanks for the fun.
Larry A. Botimer
-------------------------------------------
I just took a look at your page. I just wanted to suggest that
you divide and classify the page a little more. Since it starts
with a long discussion (with graphics) of the Book of Abraham, it
is a little difficult to find the table of contents.
It appears that you have quite a lot of information there, it is
just hard to find. I am sensitive to this because I just finished
a technical writing course at BYU. Since I am heavily involved in
technology, I often see poor formatting get in the way of good
information, and want to help avoid it where ever possible.
Scott L. Rollins
----------------------------------------------
I think you are the most deceit Mormon I have come in contact
with. Why? The LDS Church has a different Jesus. You say that
Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer, one god in a pantheon of
gods. So, god has a grandfather and great grandfather............
The God of the bible doesn't say this. I pity you because you are
the HARDEST Mormon to convince.
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking
in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by
manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's
conscience in the sight of God.
2Cr 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are
lost:
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of
them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of
Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Cor4:2-4
William F. Aguirre
(Kerry's comment: Wellllll, I can't please em all.......)
-------------------------------------------
Kerry,
Hey, remember me? It's been a while since I've heard any thing
from you. I recently discovered your web site. You've done a
great job at bringing together an amazing amount of BoA material
and making some semblance of order out of chaos.
After reading your open letter to the traitor Stephen Thompson, I
was wondering if he responded to anything you called him on?
Especially on how accepts as good scholarship inaccurate garbage
spouted by many uncredentialed evangelicals, and rejects
everything from FARMS even though all those people have PHD's in
closely related fields.
Mike Simons
--------------------------------------------
Dear Kerry Shirts,
I really enjoy your web site, it is helping me a lot. But... why
do you insist in promoting biblical textual criticism?? (at least
this is my impression). BTC is promoted primarily by theological
liberals or humanists, the same kind of people that would accept
homosexuality or women priests. More to come later, if you agree.
Joe Martins, Munich, Germany.
-----------------------------------------
Kerry,
Great to hear from you -- and you've got a ton of great stuff on
your page. Once things slow down for me with my side business --
I'll go through it. It's amazing that after so many years with
the Prodigy boards, the anti's have the exact same attacks.
Amazing.
BTW, you do great wood work -- I am impressed.
Jerry
------------------------------------------
EXCELLENT SITE!!! Thank you for putting together such a vast
amount of wonderful material. I'll be visiting oft. Keep up the
great work.
David Linn
---------------------------------------
Kerry,
This is without a doubt the most significant posting I have seen
on any newsgroup. I have copied it for my files. Other than the
articles listed, are there any others you would suggest. Thank
you so much for taking the time to write this. This is exactly
the kind of thing I wish FARMS would do more of.
Bravo!
Trevor
----------------------------------------
It looks like you have done a lot of work here. Very impressive,
brother.
Good job!
Cecil T. Champenois, Jr.
V. P., MIS
Clearview Capital Corporation
101 Main Street, Third Floor
Huntington Beach CA 92648
------------------------------------
Really enjoy your articles!
--A fellow LDS in the Okefenokee swamp(South Georgia).
Many Thanks,
Buddy Adams
--------------------------------
SHIRT TAIL I REALLY LIKE YOUR WEB PAGE AND THE WORK YOU DO , YOU
HAVE GIVEN ME MUCH INFO THANK YOU
(2nd part he didn't want me to miss)
DEAR KERRY
I AM SO PLEASED TO HAVE FOUND YOUR WEB SITE, I AM A CONVERT AND I
AM LEARNING SO MUCH FROM YOUR WORKS . I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT YOU PUT INTO THIS WORK. I JUST HOPE SOME
OF THE ANTIMORMONS SEE YOUR WORK AND CHANGE THERE IDEAS. GOD
BLESS YOU AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. I ENJOYED THE BRIGHAM YOUNG
ARTICLE. THANKS AGAIN
FRANK DE LUCA
PS PEOPLE CALL ME THE ITALIAN MORMON.
------------------------------
Thanks for the info, Kerry. I look forward to diving into this
aspect of both Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham. I've shied
away from investigating this stuff because I needed to get an
overview first, a cultural and historical sense of both the
Egyptian culture and its ties to the PoGP. So I'll start by
digging in to your article. Thanks.
Steve Gordon
--------------------------------------
Hi Kerry,
Keep up the good work on your web site, it's looking great!
Michael L. Simons
-----------------------------------------------
THANKS KERRY!!! Now, all I need is some time to read it!
Tom
--------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Shirts,
I have been looking at the information on your web page and have
learned a great deal. I was looking for something on the
hypocephalus and decided to look on the internet and was
pleasantly surprised with all the articles you posted. It is
quite impressive and you have obviously done a great deal of
research. This coupled with the fact that you have helped me a
great deal leaves me in your debt.
I am still working my way through the articles, but I have
focused primarily on those dealing with the Book of Abraham. I
will get to the others later, so don't take them off yet.
Thanks again for the information, I am most grateful.
Best Regards,
Alan Robinson
-----------------------------------------------
I wanted to compliment you on your excellent website. I have a
lot of reading to do!
Charles Bailey
-------------------------------------------------
Kerry,
You stud! Congratulations on being on the board. I really enjoy
your posts. After I digest the new information on the Book of
Abraham, I'll tell you what I think.
Keep in Touch,
Paul
---------------------------------------------
Kerry,
This is an awesome page! I certainly appreciate the resource of
information you have provided. Keep up the great work!
-Greg Annias
-------------------------------------------
Mr. Shirts,
I would just like to say well done on your mormon research page.
I've read your posts on usenet for quite a while but did not look
into your web info until today. Where do you get the time to
gather and display all this info? Anyways, I'll be meandering
through your web site for a while and just wanted you to know
someone else appreciates the work you do. Danke.
Sincerely,
Li Chen
--------------------------------